Time for a Free Software Business Initiative

FSBIN sounds like a good, perhaps even more ambitious idea. I'm quite a strong believer at this point into the Free Market economy and when I mention capitalism I mean strictly Free Market based capitalism although I acknowledge that a Free Market could exist within a system which is perhaps a bit different from the original or capitalism as we know it.

The goal in the business world should be to strike a balance that has been lost. This balance may in the end improve the market for everyone and restore or accelerate inventiveness. Focusing too much on profit while disregarding the ethics ought to lead to a disaster sooner or later, even for the big money makers. Therefore promoting the ethical aspect to businesses is paramount, rather than hiding it as an undesirable subject.

But well, I'm mostly paraphrasing what's already said.

Btw, I like some of your slogan suggestions. Thanks for coming up with them.

Well, actually, getting a representation of Free Software to businesses is not only due to the prevalence of business, acknowledging that it can't be ignored. It's much more than that. It is about affecting the business mentality and consequently changing the way businesses think about social and economic justice and ethics, starting with actually convincing them that it pays to care about it.

I think I see where you are coming from: if business understands the ideas behind free software it's interpretation of what software is will change. Currently software is thought of as a physical product like a bunch of bananas, you wish to introduce the idea that software can be made to help people thanks to the four freedoms, while still having the ability to make a profit etc?

Yes. That's quite right, although I haven't been specifically aiming at convincing people that software is different than physical things, but that does fall in line quite well. Understanding that really is a precondition to understanding four freedoms.

And ability to make profit existed for all this time. It's just that businesses have been skeptical about it. Through Open Source they've realized that it can work. Now it's time to see why exactly has anyone even tried to come up with such a model, because it is not just about producing better code. So they should learn the goals behind FSF and realize that respecting certain ethical principles isn't automatically anti-business. Even if it reduces your earnings a bit, you gain more respect and what's most important long term credibility because bad business practices get discovered and frowned upon by the public sooner or later, but when you have a history of respecting your customers and their rights, this credibility lasts as long as you continue with that policy.

Agreed. For those of us who believe in the co-operative/friendly society business model over the shareholder company, life is full of compromising the principal in practice. It's possible in the software world to go 100% free, not so in business. Credit Unions, Charities, the Public Service and the self-employed are usually the only ones we can happily transact with, most of the time there's no practical alternative to dealing with unsustainable wealth concentrators.

Also I agree the free software community shouldn't spread themselves too thinly. As I posted on the climate change thread it's apt to focus on free software and feel good about it, other people are focussed on other issues and any joint initiatives should not be to the detriment of the specialised efforts. The extreme metaphor: I want to make water, but if everyone joined in there'd be no-one producing hydrogen or oxygen.

Most people would like to look forward to a future of world peace and optimal freedom through sustainable political, economic, and social agreements. To get to that greater system we've got to produce the constituent elements in todays adverse conditions. Try it all at once and we'll get nowhere. All of it hangs on the ability of specialists to win success in their chosen areas.

Free software is the most advanced in all areas, and it enables the other initiatives to accelerate their work. I think future historians tracing the roots of change may note that 1984 was not as Orwell warned, but the birth of a new dawn thanks to the GPL.

https://gnuherds.org

It is just a proposal under development.

Clearly a lot of intellect and energy has gone in there, very admirable, including the GNU Business network dating back to 2000 (is GNU Herds a replacement?), but I wonder are these initiatives bound to remain marginal fledglings for a good while, being too far ahead of their time like pieces of a future puzzle that can't easily connect well with todays reality.

If it was offering a 'better' solution to a problem for the IBM's of this world they'd be there in droves supporting it. I think the only surefire way big outfits can be coaxed in is by having top grade job seekers offering their CV's exclusively on GNU Herds when such individuals are in short supply.

With full regard to the fact that big players have changed their tune on free software and may adopt this new set of terms and conditions sooner than I think, I keep coming back to startups as being the big opportunity here, they don't have to change their ways this would be the default mode from day 0.

My inclination would be to make innovation and entrepreneurship a core focus on GNU Herds. Link to or reproduce the FSF/UNESCO list of business free software for starters. Provide a forum for collaboration, target free software entrepreneurs and programmers, University/community business incubator units, co-operatives and their associations assigining site update roles as you go. Build an event planning facility for members to arrange meetings such as those where angels and innovators shoot the breeze, specialised groupware for enterprise clubs.

As always think through the steps the target has to take and see how to make that easier. The ideal is to have some willing guniea-pigs to give feedback. My pilot customer is indispensable, their insights changed the code.

"Build it and they will come" won't work though (he said bitterly), but it doesn't need to. Once a facility is in place it's time to network the old fashioned way, one to one, and get those prospects on board. Six degrees of separation, it's perfectly do-able. This doesn't mean programmers have to leave the comfort zone and embark on a scary adventure in meatspace, the advocate/sales type can do that.

The site could then be ad-supported. Accountants, tax advisors, solicitors etc. all want to get new business on board.

If this business network portal is to prosper it's got to be strong on meeting business needs, as it stands it's only market differentiation seems to be a set of ethical preconditions. Looking at the current work team it seems the team-building exercise needs another iteration. I'd try and get the likes of Mr. Cygnus involved, I think it badly needs that kind of been there and done that entrepreneurial input, and later the advocacy/networking types.

You said it well. The basic idea behind GNU Herds may be good, but here is my honest impression of it. Outright, coming to their site I'm not really attracted to it. I simply doubt a common businessman would waste much time on a site which has an actual photo of gnu herd as its logo. Perhaps appearances shouldn't matter, but in this day and age they very much do, and this can't be ignored.

Also, I don't really get the wholeness of what they are doing from looking at the site. I see a bunch of somewhat related links to some other "resources" and that's it. The presentation just isn't there yet.

The way I imagine a Free Software Business association, initiative or whatever is something with an attractive modern web site with an engaging logo, an easy to grasp introductory text that will entice the business person to read more about it and actually find easy pointer to where to read more and should they decide to get involved somehow provide exactly ways in which they can do so, and where to contact people for help.

I just don't think it will be taken seriously otherwise by more than few existing Free Software affiliates.

That was noted previously. I think you are right. So, I have raised the priority of the 'logo' task https://savannah.nongnu.org/task/index.php?6775

You are right, the presentation is too much 'hacker' oriented. It could be great if someone offers a text which be both business and hacker oriented. I have added the task https://savannah.nongnu.org/task/index.php?7216

What about the FAQ section? Is it enough to the business person? How could it be improved?

About contact, you can see: For more information:

About the FAQ section it seems as if it was written by someone who doesn't have english as his/her first language, so it doesn't tend to flow very nicely and understandably.

Also I don't think this big diagram is really helping much. I don't think business people are interested in diving into it to see what it represents and they want things to be simple and more obvious, and that diagram seems rather complex.

I seem to be full of criticism and I'm sorry for that. Perhaps I'm not understanding the exact purpose of GNU Herds project. The FAQ says the association's aim is to "encourage the professional development of Free Software contributors."

I suppose what this means is training and/or finding contributors which would contribute to Free Software as part of their job and profession. Hence the job site.

That is then a rather specific purpose and not really what I was describing in the article as the Free Software Business Initiative. The initiative would do something else, provide businesses with general information about the Free Software business model and the importance and benefits of incorporating ethical values (caring for freedom) into their business. And then it would further publish or link to articles which fit and contribute to that particular theme. It would also link to other projects which work on certain specific aspects of Free Software business - and GNU Herds is just one of such projects - an association of Free Software professionals, from employers to employees.

But of course it would still benefit the project if it clearly explains itself as such on its website and also make the web site more attractive to these employers and employees, and any other target group.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts. I am glad if they are helpful.

Thank you

You are right. I wrote it. I am Spanish. Any fix would be great. Just an email with the fixes; gnuherds-app-dev AT nongnu.org

Fixed. Thanks! I hope it is right now.

No, the project does not try to find contributors who would contribute to FS as part of their job. It tries to make it easier to people and business, who follow the FS rules, to find a FS-job or FS-business-model.

Inside the Association any 'module' can be developed, so as the job site module has been developed.

GNU Herds list some ways to set up business 'networks' at the FS Business Networks section. GNU Herds exposes it just as examples that FS-contributors could use to set up its own business, but GNU Herds do not try to register every FS business model.

If somebody want to contribute new sections she/he is welcome. However it is not the main priority now.

I have already added a task to write a presentation to both business and hacker oriented, but I do not know yet how to realize it.

First, the site must just work. We could do it more attractive later. The project will follow needing new members, theirs contributions and ideas, for ever and ever!

Your thoughts are already helping.

Oh, understandable. Unless anyone else wants to, I could send some fixes, but I first have to make sure I correctly understand all that the FAQ is saying so that I don't misrepresent something.

Ah I see now.

Well, that's where I see the difference between FSBI (Free Software Business Initiative) idea and your project. My idea was an organization which would actively promote Free Software to all businesses including those who wouldn't otherwise be involved with Free Software. It is basically an equivalent of Open Source. The difference between FSBI and Open Source Initiative is simply in that FSBI would incorporate the issue of social justice and freedom into the "pitch" to the business world as something that is desirable for those businesses to care about.

GNU Herds on the other hand apparently aims to just provide a resource to those who already are involved or would like to be involved. So it basically does only the subset of what would be necessary under FSBI. It leads people to specific models and Free Software companies after the fact - after they've already been introduced and convinced to take part in it.

So a hypothetical (since it doesn't really exist yet) FSBI would definitely collaborate with GNU Herds, but GNU Herds association is still not that.

Could it become that? Perhaps.. One way I see this happening could be to develop a module - a project - under a separate domain name, which would be introducing businesses to Free Software and its social and ethical aspects the way I described above and then referring them to other modules of your association, related to specific business models (case studies and model blueprints etc.). The job site is actually not such a priority in that picture though, because the primary goal would be to involve existing and new businesses (entrepreneurs) rather than to employ individual programmers and other experts. That's even further down the road.

I'm just trying to point out the differences between what I was thinking about when I described the Free Software Business Initiative and what I see GNU Herds site at this point in time. I don't think they're the same.

That said, improvements which you've now already initiated are all going to benefit your project nevertheless. Better and friendlier presentation and clearer understandability is a must for every project of that kind.

Cheers

Danijel.

Great.

The FSF marketing campaings have improved a lot lastly. Obviously any additional help on such tasks will be good. However, it would be very hard to do it better than the FSF is realizing it. Note that the FSF has not only clever people but economic resources. If somebody would like to contribute proposing a new campaign the best to do should be contact RMS.

Note: I am working a lot on GNU Herds, but it is is not my project. It is the members' project.

To do something you will have to spend a lot of time. If something is done the FSF should know about it. I advice you to contact RMS via email and expose your proposal. Maybe the FSF will just do it.

If that must be done, the best is do it under the umbrella of the FSF. GNU Herds has already planned to try to move the project to the FSF hosts. We have already contacted with RMS.

Yes, you are right. GNU Herds just tries to encourage the professional development of FS contributors via FS job offers and FS business models.

Sure. I will follow contributing.

I think that your suggestion to contact FSF about this is a good idea. There is actually a pending Libre Planet project which will help coordinate various campaigns and there is also a special email address for campaigns: campaigns[at]fsf.org

FSBI might be a bit more than a campaign though so I'm not sure where would it end up, but at least contacting FSF about it is a very good start.

I'm just not sure if it is normally required for those who propose a project to also lead it, because I'm not sure I'd be a good person for that right now.

Cheers

Danijel

A leader have to be enthusiastic, tenacious and have experience and tact. Apart from that, it is just working a lot and discussing proposals. This campaign would need to spend a lot of time for several years.

No, GNU Herds is not a GNU Business Network replacement. Instead, GNU Herds could be used by any number of individuals, business, business networks, etc. at the same time. "GNU Business Network (GBN)" could be just one of the available _tags_.

P.S.: Now we are working to remove the JavaScript requirement. It is almost ready to be uploaded to the server. After finishing it we will try to move the project to the FSF hosts. The project lacks in active developers, and of course any kind of help. Your feedback has already helped. Thanks!

Ugh, I don't want a 'Linux' - Microsoft duopoly. I don't care how many operating systems there are, as long as they are Free. I understand that the Linux Foundation want to promote an operating system based around the Linux kernel and thus they don't care about freedom but from this post they show no hunger to do this, that they will be willing for a duopoly. I do slightly agree with comments on respect, I don't think we should go around vilifying the company for no reason, I can't stand childish things like writing "Micro$oft" etc.

I agree with a certain level of decency with regards to how we are dealing with Microsoft, but within the context in which Linux Foundation is suggesting "respect" it feels like more than just "don't make fools of yourselves with childish hate expressions" kind of thing.. It's the kind of respect that leads to that duopoly. :S

Welcome aboard fellow Croatian! Dobro došli!

Let's see the results for "Free Software". Most of the results on the first page are about Free Software as in freedom and the first result (unpaid one at least) is actually FSF.org. It stands out quite a bit. Considering that most people pay attention only to the first or first few pages this is actually quite good.

So I don't think that what you mention is so much of a problem as it may seem. And for what confusion is left, we can work towards tilting the balance towards our side instead of just accepting "Open Source". We can work on making "Free Software" more often associated with "free as in freedom" than "free as in cost".

Cheers

And I've tought that I'm the only person in Croatia contemplating about software freedom.

I agree. I've only wanted to point out that term "Free Software" is more often abused then "Open Source". Attempts of abuse of any term are unavoidable. Problem of term "Open Source" is that OSI, until few weeks ago, didn't fight against that abuse.

Thanks. I suppose it depends on ones view on what capitalism is. Perhaps I should have more specifically emphasized "Free Market" rather than capitalism in whole, but the purpose of associating Free Software with either is to simply erase all suspicion in minds of business people that Free Software is about something profoundly anti-business and against making money, that it may in fact be the opposite - it restores opportunities necessary for new business to flourish and competition to thrive.

Maybe you are referring to this: "After 10 years: What is Open Source?".

I'm very glad to hear that. From my point of view that would be a great step in the right direction. Maybe some day you end up deciding to go for "Free Software Reporter" only.

Thank you.

Danijel