Cooperating with FSF on Libre Planet

Sounds good to me.

Might make sense to have online community facilities at libre planet rather than each cell having to duplicate effort. The scale can also make more powerful features viable. Tenable economics would need to be worked out first of course.

Should the strategies of Free Software advocacy be discussed 100% publicly? The eye of Sauron is ever watching and ready to counter. I'd tend to be reluctant to relinquish the element of surprise in cases where it takes a long time to get from concept to implementation. Of course when this is done it raises the potentially divisive issue of who's in 'the circle of trust', but otoh maybe people can accept that the threat of a fools mate is real and justifies certain sensitive things being on a need to know basis.

Well unless our communities are collectively genius enough to successfully deal with even that variable, the fact that the "Sauron" will see, I suppose some closed circle activities may be justified. I'm not yet sure exactly what's the nature and status of Libre Planet, but I inquired about it and am expecting a reply... so we'll see where it takes us.

I suppose as long as we accept feedback from as wide as possible we can keep the final implementation on a need to know basis if the particular case would really significantly benefit from it. Otherwise.. it doesn't matter.

We have always had more or less secret brainstorms on libervis, so no difference there. A libre planet (which I think is a horrible name since to me "planet" means rss without much interaction between users) could openly bring groups together which then can get into secret discussions about the details of what they want to do.

I think the libre planet idea puts way too much emphasis on free software instead of digital freedom in general, but then again I think the same about the current libervis, so maybe it is a perfect fit after all .

Another thing I dislike is the activism I sense in the proposal. Convincing others free software is good is not enough, we should (somehow) help creation of free software and other free digital materials. To put it in an extreme way, convincing people to try software that doesn't exist is no good. Also, free software activism can get quite ugly, and it is something I'd rather not be involved in anymore.

I do think it would be a good idea to cooperate with the FSF, and it might even be a good idea to do that on libervis.com instead of yet another new libervis network site, and I strongly support the idea, but I don't see much of a role for myself in it. Which of course isn't a problem, it might be a solution because it would stop me from continuously trying to pull libervis.com in a direction I'd like it to go while everyone else seems to have a slightly different idea.

Well I am not really envisioning Libervis.com cooperating with FSF on this project in a way that would take a majority of its share to it. Free Software is merely a subset of what Libervis.com is about, even if currently only theoretically (but we do have a number of much more general discussions) and the plan for a new revision of the site, which is largely inspired by your ideas (and which I really do like) makes it much more than just for discussions and activism. So there's a little bit of many things involved, and this means that Libervis.com may only in a small portion actually be dedicated to cooperating with Libre Planet.

In fact, I find it imaginable for Libre Planet cooperation to mostly revolve around a few people from Libervis just jumping on board of Libre Planet as an independent activity without really making a significant effect on the site itself.

And nothing's even starting just yet anyway.

So my point is that Libre Planet cooperation is unlikely to change the direction and nauture of Libervis.com in any way, and may merely be a way to plug in the part that has some commonalities with it to the Libre Planet.

About having a slightly different idea, I would put emphasis on *slightly*. I might as well claim the same thing. If I was doing it alone who knows what Libervis.com would be by now. Your ideas have been more than a slight influence on Libervis.com's direction.

Basically, no matter how slight or not the differences in visions are, when we cooperate and mix them together we get something with elements that make all of us happy, right?

Cheers

The thing is, I think it might actually be better for libervis to stay focused on preserving freedom, instead of shifting more to making use of that freedom. The first is what we're good at and what brings us visitors.
The direction I'm pulling libervis in is what I'd more like to do, but I have doubts whether or not it is the smart thing to do, with your (libervisco) income depending on it and all that.

So is the financial issue the only one which makes you doubt your proposed direction? If not I'd be interested in hearing others. If yes then it's something yet to be analysed (in another topic perhaps) to see what could be viable.

What currently brings us visitors are mostly articles that are written by any of us here and are channelled through other sites with more traffic. And these traffic levels aren't currently enough to ensure full sustainability in the long term when the text link ads threat is taken into consideration. This may simply mean we need more unique content more frequently or that we need different kind of content as a different additional ways of attracting extra traffic. That's what I was hoping extensions to our site as part of the plan you proposed could potentially do.

There's still a lot to think about.