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A Non-traditional Open and Cooperative Business Proposition

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User offline. Last seen 11 years 32 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2004-08-23
That means we need to make

That means we need to make sure it takes a long time to finish Smiling .

Here's a crazy idea: if we add one part to the game that is not necessary to finish, and also is very hard to figure out, maybe some company wants to offer jobs to those who do figure it out.
Endless possibilities for creating overlap between game and reality!

Besides, it doesn't matter that some projects are finite. What matters is that they give us a good reputation, which helps a lot for the next project.

memenode's picture
User offline. Last seen 11 weeks 19 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 2004-07-12
That's quite an impressive

That's quite an impressive idea Taco, although ambitious too (nothing wrong with that). Making the whole web our potential playground sounds exciting.

I'm not entirely clear yet though why or for what would advertisers pay money though? I mean if the game is so decentralized then what exactly are the advertising spaces we "own" that we can sell? The only one I can think off so far are the actual homepage of the game and those login screens you mention..

Maybe I didn't get it right yet...

Quote:

I like the idea of the second game, though I worry that it may be a bit short term; once people have finnished the game they will not come back as it were.

Well the game actually doesn't have to have an ending. We could have various challenges one after another with no real end in sight. While players solve one puzzle we are already creating another. Eye

Quote:

Besides, it doesn't matter that some projects are finite. What matters is that they give us a good reputation, which helps a lot for the next project.

That's true too. One thing to note though is that our past reputation will be linked with what we did last time and people will expect to do something similar next time as well. That means, in this case, that if we become the creators of this mysterious puzzle game then we're essentially gonna be considered the mysterious game makers and expected to continue doing things in line of that in the future as well. Smiling

You Taco are really imaginative. You always have awesome ideas! Smiling

Thanks for sharing. Smiling

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User offline. Last seen 11 years 32 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2004-08-23
My idea essentially is

My idea essentially is "reverse advertising": we don't have the advertisers on our pages, we are on the pages of the advertisers. Imagine how much attention the website of an advertiser will get if
1) the players have to find where we are hiding on that site
2) the players need to find real information about the advertiser to be able to solve a puzzle

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I see. That's interesting,

I see. That's interesting, but I think would need some convincing and explaining for advertisers to actually get interested. Most are "trained", so to speak, to look for advertising space somewhere or simply a linkback from a well ranked page to pay for, and that's it.

Anyway, so shall we consolidate all ideas proposed so far and vote for the best or in some way choose what may be the most viable given the resources and skills we have?

We haven't yet gotten much of additional involvement though I did ask on IRC channel..

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User offline. Last seen 11 years 32 weeks ago. Offline
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I think "we can guarantee at

I think "we can guarantee at least the number of xyz people are going to read your website carefully" is quite convincing Smiling .

On the other hand, we should be very aware that successfully running such a game is an enormous amount of work!

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Quote:On the other hand,
Quote:

On the other hand, we should be very aware that successfully running such a game is an enormous amount of work!

Indeed. That's why I'm not sure if there's enough of us with time and resources to accomplish that. In any case it is a good idea to consider. Even if we don't go with some of the ideas seen here they can be kept for some other time when some of these ideas may be viable.

I'm probably gonna read a bit about some Free Software and Culture friendly business models and it might give me some ideas. I've got a PDF about p2p business models to read tonight. Smiling

Some research is good before making a final choice.

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A final choice? I don't

A final choice? I don't think we have seen THE idea yet!

I also wonder why we no doubt are getting into complications by running a cooperative. Wouldn't it be easier to let everyone set up their own company, then make deals for projects that each company will do its own part of?

To be successful as one company, we need to find something that all of those starting it are good at. Of course we need to be good at different aspects, but we really need to find a common strong side and interest.

Now what do a guy who could and would love to work on cryptographic software that helps protecting human rights and a guy who would install linux (but probably should do webdesign because he's really good at that Eye ) have in common? What kind of small company could they both work for? And what about the others who haven't explained who they are yet?

Let's take a systematic approach and answer these questions, in this order:
1 Who are we and what are our talents and weak sides and coincidental possible advantages and disadvantages?
2 What do we want to do with those talents?
3 How do we combine these wants of the different members?
4 How do we make money doing that?
5 What type of cooperation is the most suitable to do so?
6 How do we arrange that? (legal stuff and such)
7 Does everything make good business sense? Yes? Then go for it!

So far we have not given satisfactory answers to 1 and thrown some wild ideas for 2. Come on, get real.

Okay, here we go.

1: Good programmer, knows many tools so tends to know the "right tool for the job", doesn't know **** about databases, poor real life social skills, not good with money (well, I am good at saving but simple tax forms confuse me way too much... maybe it's a phobia), busy studying, interested in user interfaces, somewhat interested in cryptography.

2: Ideally I would like to completely redefine the "desktop". A less ambitious goal would be to do some social experiments.

3: I need the lot of you to answer 1 and 2 before I can suggest an answer. And I need answers from more than four people. Maybe we should ask people from nuxified to join this discussion? Just don't send out an invitation to lxer yet Smiling .

memenode's picture
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Thank you for the wake up

Thank you for the wake up call Taco.

I'll be completely honest here, not that I don't try to be honest otherwise. I'll just be even more open. I am not a very well organized guy. I am not very good at defining myself and making my goals as clear as sun to even myself. This may even reflect on Libervis Network where I tend to try and get involved in too much just to end up not finishing it or doing a rather poor job on it. None of our sites are exactly "reaching for the sky" and that prompts me to constant rethinking.

And that has everything to do with this business we want to start. I'll try to give questions you posed a bit of thought before I go and answer them. Maybe this very discussion and ultimately the project that may come out of it (which has the potential of being the biggest thing this group has ever done) will be a turning point for me too.

So I'm on a sort of short suspense to think this all through. Smiling

Thank you
Daniel

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User offline. Last seen 11 years 30 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2005-05-08
Let's take a systematic
tbuitenh wrote:

Let's take a systematic approach and answer these questions, in this order:
1 Who are we and what are our talents and weak sides and coincidental possible advantages and disadvantages?
2 What do we want to do with those talents?
3 How do we combine these wants of the different members?
4 How do we make money doing that?
5 What type of cooperation is the most suitable to do so?
6 How do we arrange that? (legal stuff and such)
7 Does everything make good business sense? Yes? Then go for it!

1. I can program some things, but I'm not proficient in any language. I have an interest (though no real knowlage) in the Linux kernel, especially the stuff to do with framebuffers (of all things!). I also have an interest in CAD. I'm okay socially (IRL), I can talk to people etc. I'm quite good with money (saving, knowing limmits etc.), but have never had to fill in tax forms (or simmilar). I have worked on translating FOSS projects into Welsh.
I'm under the age of 18 - this could be a problem. I go to school, thus I have to study. I tend to have great ideas but never implement them.

2. Make a Free CAD System for the GNU/Linux OS, as well as make open standards for media a norm (e.g. .ogg over .mp3).

3. I'll wait and see what is to come from other people.

dylunio

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tbuitenh wrote: I also
tbuitenh wrote:

I also wonder why we no doubt are getting into complications by running a cooperative. Wouldn't it be easier to let everyone set up their own company, then make deals for projects that each company will do its own part of?

Maybe it'd be easier. There are two potentially valid reasons for a cooperative though, demonstrating an alternative model to traditional corporations (which often end up having shareholders and all the funny business that comes with them), and it might be easier to get started together rather than separate economically speaking. But I suppose we will have to analyze who we are first to see what can best fit.

Quote:

1 Who are we and what are our talents and weak sides and coincidental possible advantages and disadvantages?

My interests:
- electronic music and creating it (I founded "Cosmicall" electronic music "band" now mostly held by my friend (co-producer) and created a dozen or so of electronic music tracks back on windows. Today I don't produce anything yet because other things outprioritize it, but I would like to)
- graphical design, gimping and inkscaping banners, headers, logos etc. as well as web styling (I actualy considered going to the graphical desging high school)
- tinkering, hacking/programming Free Software (despite not being at all skillful at this it is one of my interests)
- web publishing including: creating websites, writing on the web, web business..
- others, as it's more likely to assume I have more than I can list here than not, such as space exploration/science fiction/futurism

My skills: Not all of my interests are accompanied by skills, but here is what I got:
- ok, I know a bit about a good beat and nice sample patterns in electronic music. I've got some experience with that. Eye
- Some graphic design skills. While I am not very good at creating believable characters such as Tux, I can put things together into a nice banner. I know some web design and styling and CSS/HTML which is required for it, but NOT actual web programming/development which requires more skill than I have with PHP and similar languages. Maybe I could include putting together nice desktop themes on GNU/Linux (that's pretty much in line with web design anyway, if I can make a website look good I can make my desktop look good too).
- web publishing.. any skills I have here come mostly from experience. I have some insights on the way web publishing business (mostly advertising) works. I know how to setup a website with Drupal and XOOPS, but could adapt to other content management systems as well. The biggest problem with web publishing are good ideas (or lack of them) and their proper execution. This is among the things that make or break the project (or have you limping along as opposed to flying at full speed).

My problems:

- A bit disorganized sometimes, not so much in practical sense as in my mind. I often tend to react too quickly to getting emotionally impressed by something. If I read an awesome article I can get both the motivation and ideas. The latter is sometimes the problem. Not all ideas should actually be pursued. No matter how much I love the idea and believe it to be absolutely awesome at one moment it's not guaranteed that I would really succeed at executing it all the way. But this is the kind of thing that can leave me with unfinished projects and at some point even hurt credibility/reputation.

- very bad sleeping schedule, not even consistent at all times. This is probably more a matter of self discipline. A serious business with tangible strains could motivate a positive change here. I thought for a while about setting up a stricter work/sleep/freetime schedule to stick to even if I'll have to add a sort of personal "DRM" functionality to my computer forcing me to keep to it (like shutting down or locking me up when its time for sleep, or something. Laughing out loud)

- lack of money to invest in more ambitious ideas, but is it a real problem? No, as long as brain works 110% I suppose that constraint should be beaten, in theory at least...

Quote:

2 What do we want to do with those talents?

Goals? Oh add that to my problems list above. While I do have goals they don't always seem clear as sun and are rather too general and fuzzy. Is that normal?

Still though the ultimate "general" goal I have is to succesfully live off working ethically and in line with my worldview. In other words I want to run or be among the runners of a business which is ethical and contributes to the new free world that can be built on the digital network that Earth is becoming. Smiling

More specific? Create a large, self sustaining and profitable, influential and well known web network whose structure, function and purpose reflects best of what can come out of freedom in a digital world - demonstrating that only freedom, not artificial constraints, can allow for fastest evolution, innovations. Yes I want to, if possible, someday compete with the likes of Yahoo and Google, but with more emphasis on networking and cooperation. I want that network to be at the forefront of Earth Network (internet) evolution. That's not very specific yet, but is at least more specific than saying "live off well doing good ethical business" Smiling
All of my interests and skills can be well integrated into this network because network knows no limit in creativity and topics. However if it becomes this huge it should be a real business entitiy with employers/cooperators meaning not all sites would be run by myself, even if I'd have some management/coordination influence over them.

Quote:

4 How do we make money doing that?

The above goal of big network can include multiple business models, advertising being the most obvious one. Alot of paid for web services could be part of it so.. that too..

However, what will we come up with here is still unknown so I'll stop here and see if anyone else can answer these questions and then we can start combining. Smiling

Sorry for the longer ranting (another of my "qualities"). Eye

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