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Bill Gates and other communists

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memenode's picture
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And here is another Microsoft negativity thread shouting about the "evil" that comes upon the turbulent IT worlds. When will it end? I don't see the end, it seems that 2005 will be the year of bitter combat in every possible aspect of the public currents.

The leader of the opposition has spoken. He wasn't to be expected not to react. He as a leader of the community has been insluted, disinformation about his community has been spread and lies have been spoken out. Even libervis.com joined the fight "ruthlesy" blacklisting a lie, however distasteful it sounds in this distasteful "war".

Richard Stallman says in:

Bill Gates and other communists

Quote:

RMS said:
Thanks to Mr. Gates, we now know that an open Internet with protocols anyone can implement is communism.

Quote:

RMS said:
Mr. Gates' secret is out now--he too was a "communist;" he, too, recognized that software patents were harmful--until Microsoft became one of these giants.

And what do people respond? They respond with more insults, humiliation, dishonouring a man that has fought for THEIR freedom for his whole life! Read the comments to see what i am talking about.

Brainwashed, morally distorted and disinformed, a deep blind darkness has fallen upon the eyes of such people. Crying or Very sad

Wouldn't they respond to insults? Wouldn't they defend the truth that's being constantly attacked and distorted? Wouldn't they defend their dignitiy? No doubt they would, but there, they are bashing on a great man that tries to do just that and not only for the sake of himself, but for the great community that he represents.

I join his words!

Thank you
Daniel

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monserrat's picture
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Re: Bill Gates and other communists

Many rubishes... , but there are some good comments, like this one: What it is all about

Rijik.

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Re: Bill Gates and other communists

I quite dislike the characterisation of "one is a communist". The original concept of communism isn't all that bad. One must know of Marcsk (hope that I spelt his name right), and his state of living where the the majority of the population was being oppressed - and how he concieved a society inwhich everyone is completely equal. In fact if you look at the Bible, you will find that communistic traits are visibled (and I must admit I have not read it, just gone through some excerpts, but I can dig out some examples).

Anyhow, as I was saying - the ideologies which communism uses aren't actually bad. That only set back with this type of society is that those who are rich, and especially those who live at the top of a capitalistic society hate to loose their power and wealth, as well as the fact that they usually remain quite selfish and end up taking advantage of others. This exploitation has been present in every attempt of a communistic society, and thus, in the sense of the word, no government on earth has to date become a real communistic state. The Soviet Union was more of a dictatorship, and the Asian states are military controlled governments.

In truth, our society isn't much better that those failed communistic governments. The western world aren't real democratic nations - they are capitalistic democracies - inwhich exploitation commonly occurs on a daily basis (just open your newspaper).

Hence, when someone calls another a communist - I don't see it as an appropriate insult - nor do I think one should be insulting another in the first place. :-)

***

Well enough thread hijacking - feel free to correct anything I have gotten wrong (my social studies isn't very advanced, so I am just going by some text books and small repetoire of acquired knowledge).

Have a wonderful day,
Pascal

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monserrat's picture
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Re: Bill Gates and other communists

Pascal,

You're pretty right! :yes:

The only thing I would correct you is his name: Karl Marx. His exceptional work did change the world, but in the end it was used as just an ideology of communist states to disguise their dictatorships... :shake:

Nontheless, his theoretical work can be re-worked in order to update it and use its still useful analytical tools. Our cooperative article does so. Have a look at Section 2. I'm sure you'll like it. :yes:

Thanks, Monserrat.

User offline. Last seen 13 years 23 weeks ago. Offline
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Re: Bill Gates and other communists

Section II?

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monserrat's picture
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Re: Bill Gates and other communists

Yes, it is in Section 2, Theoretical Framework.

Rijik.

memenode's picture
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Re: Bill Gates and other communists

Yes, i agree that communism isn't completely bad, but as i matter of fact i don't see capitalism as completely bad as well. Both systems have been brought up by good intentions and to fix the sick society that was predominant before.

However, two things happen with both systems:

1) The ideal system as it was imagined never got completely implemented.. something went wrong on the road
State interfered more than it should granting some companies advantages over others. When information technology got born it was completely mistreated as it was treated as material matter, not as a form of information and that actually totally went of the point of real capitalism (if you consider it a system of fair competition) because it inevitably led to monopolies. Capitalism that we have today isn't even real capitalism. Many aspects of the current dominant so called "capitalist" system are actually *anti-capitalistic*.

You know the story of communism, it never actually got a real chance.

2) Even that ideal system screwed up at some significant point.

Besides not being completely and correctly implemented, even if it was something would still be wrong. Why?
Because both systems were created in a "hostile" environment of the predominant old system that was to be replaced which often resulted in overreacting.
What i mean is, when people formed capitalism it was formed in order to provide individuals more rights and freedoms than they had in a previous system, but they overreacted creating a system that will allow one to have too much individual freedom and where the only goal of oneself is not fair competition, but monopoly. I call this "overindividualisation".

Communism was also formed as probably a "contrameasure" to capitalism wanting to achieve equality for all (in both rights and posesions) unlike in capitalism where the one may have been in a much better position then another. They tried doing this by making all wealth common public property, not individual private property as in capitalism. But again, they screwed up as they again crossed the line, overreacted and due to the greater individual appeal of capitalism, failed. Why? I call it "overcooperativism". Too much collectivism/cooperativism harms individual rights and freedoms.

EDIT: To make it clearer, communism made you sacrifice your individualism for the sake of cooperation which is again bad. Capitalism on the other hand sacrifices cooperation neccesery for a society to function fairly and properly for the sake of individual rights and freedoms. And as the nature wants it, both inevitably end up killing each other as the one can't without the other. Too much cooperativism harmed individualism in the end killing even that cooperation that was insisted. Too much individualism harmed cooperativism in the end killing even those individual rights. Extreme systems simply can't work. There must be a balance.

So, as you see, both systems were formed with good intentions, but failed to hit the right mark. They were the extremes to each other, the opposites, instead of being objective and balanced.

I believe that the balanced system is what we need, balanced between cooperativism and individualism where ones individual wishes and interests compliment cooperation, makes them want to cooperate and also reverse. It's a system balanced between cooperativism and individualism where both are complimenting each, not hurting each other. I believe the free software movement is a microcosmos showing an example of such a system applied to software. Applying it to all human knowledge and information would mean applying this balanced system to the humanity. That would be a happy day.

Thank you
Daniel

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Re: Bill Gates and other communists

I think that both communism and capitalism could function perfectly if the goal of an individual would be betterment of entire society. If you have such individuals then you practically don't need any system at all. I know that this sounds like some utopical reasoning, but I only want to point out that the problem is not outside the human being, but inside it.

This (or any other) rotten system is only a manifestation of a rotten human being, and it won't change much until people change and embrace some less egocentric ideals.

memenode's picture
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Re: Bill Gates and other communists

I understand your point Stojic, but i don't entirely agree on it. It is true that if people would embrace good ideals actually wanting to work for the betterment of all would be great for our society, but i don't believe that we wouldn't need a system. System would in such ideal case be automatically created and that system would be ideal. However you put it there has to be a system, like a code, of doing things no matter the human nature. It is always natural to have a system.

But guess what, i don't even agree on that every human would need to change that much from their current ideals to be able to create a better society. How come?

Well, capitalism pretty much shows how, it goes by the natural human self-interest. The whole system is based on it. And of course, it is still very popular and "well accepted" by many, because it just suits their nature.
That's what i'm talking about, if we can't make human nature change we can make the system "perfectly" adapt to that nature. Capitalism however screwed up as it went by only one part of human nature pretty much disregarding all other parts. Self-interest is not the only thing defining human being, even though it might look like the basic one, the one all comes down to.

That's why i'm saying that a balanced system i so much propagate would make individualism (personal self-interest) and cooperativism (for the interest of the whole society) COMPLIMENT each other. What i mean by that is that the one would WANT to cooperate because it suits them and their self interest, and not only in a very long term.

I see free software microcosmos as a great example of that. You can say that free software developers don't earn much money yet, but that's mainly because proprietary software still stiffles opportunities and free software market hasn't still reached that critical mass to provide enough opportunities to everyone. And even without achieving that critical mass yet (although we're "screaming fast" towards it) free software thrives. Why is that? Because people involved cooperate from their own self interest at the same time feeling good that they are helping a community at the same time as helping themselves. They free their software to the community to be able to use the same contributions by others for themselves. By the way they recieve recognition for themselves and their skills as well as increase chances to get a job at one of the (presumably) free software companies.

It works, it works well. You don't need to change human nature to have a healthy society. You just have to hit the mark with that nature in order for it to fit the system nicely.

I strongly believe in that.

Thank you
Daniel

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