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Gates says: communists!

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User offline. Last seen 12 years 37 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2004-09-18
Re: Gates says: communists!
Quote:

Libervisco wrote:

One thing though... you didn't clearly stated.. do you consider FSM to be communism oe anyhow communistic?

Well, I consider that both communism and FSM share some good values (sharing of goods for example, and having the benefit of whole community on mind), but I don't want to say that FSM = communism or even that it resembles communism in some way, even though there are some similarities. I don't want to equal FSM with anything, FSM is FSM and we can only compare it to political/economy systems.

Quote:

Libervisco wrote:

It seems to me more that you are trying to say that communism is not what people think it is than you say that FSM actually is not really a communism at all.

Yes, this is how it goes:

People have a (rather strong) feeling that communism is bad. This is wrong because communism as a system is great, but it just can't work in practice, so we had that lousy socialism that called itself communism.
Then someone says that FSM is communism. This is wrong too (I explained this up there).
Then people create a FSM=communism opinion and together with their communism=bad opinion it creates FSM=bad opinion.

This is what happens when you label something (FSM) as something else (communism) just to make it appear like that something else (bad). It is a really effective method of brainwashing.

And about people having a wrong opinion about communism there is a little experiment.
Just ask someone: "What do you think about communism?". He will probably say "Communism is bad.". Then ask him "What is communism?". You'll probably get the same answer again Laughing .

So, to conclude:
- FSM isn't communism.
- People generally have a bad opinion about communism.
- If you keep calling FSM communism, people will start having bad opinion about FSM.

monserrat's picture
User offline. Last seen 9 years 50 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2004-11-11
Re: Gates says: communists!
Quote:

Danijel wrote:

I don't believe that FSM is communism which doesn't means i think of communism as something very bad (as most of people today may think), just that FSM is still something different. One thing that characterises communism is the state controled economy, it's socialism basically.. and FSM is in no way going down that road. It wants freedom to every individual equaly, but not under the hat of the state. Material property that can be owned (unlike information and software) is (including the material means of software distribution) private property and FSM doesn't have a problem with that.

FSM is neither socialism (e.g communism, marxism etc.) nor completely capitalism. It is actually something new, or at least the core of something new.. some call it GPL society and i call it infoliberism or free information society, but it's neither capitalism as we know it nor socialism as we "knew" it.

Marx's original idea was that the means of production should be appropriated by company employees (proletarian) through a revolutionary process (either democratic or violent).

But Marx's followers didn't know how to make it effectively. So, they tried to take over the state political power and then to socialise the production system (from up to bottom) in two ways:

1) by revolution, or rather, by force. This way was pursued by the so called 'comunists'. It didn't work as history has shown up.

2) by vote. While capitalist countries were in fear of "socialist" countries Social Democrat Governments got to socialise a good deal of Education, Health, and other social areas of society, though not touching the means of production of any profiting sectors. But now all social democrat movements are adopting neo-liberal policies and privetising againa what was common goods... :shake:

What is now being proposed is to socialise the production system from within the economic cells of society, perhaps with cooperative organisations (from bottom to up), through sharing the know-how, information about production, in a similar way that is already being done in the FOSS production.

Regarding Bills' stupidities, let them away. They are not important. People know that FOSS comunity has nothing to do with China, URSS, CUBA, etc. Let Bill speaking alone! :yes: We have more important things to be concerned about.

Rijik.

memenode's picture
User offline. Last seen 2 days 5 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 2004-07-12
Re: Gates says: communists!
Quote:

monserrat wrote:
Regarding Bills' stupidities, let them away. They are not important. People know that FOSS comunity has nothing to do with China, URSS, CUBA, etc. Let Bill speaking alone! We have more important things to be concerned about.

For me and those who know FOSS good it is easy to disregard Bill and his "stupidities". However, there are people who may and are actually believing him for his great influence the green stuff and his programming "genius" has bought him. This is why this issue is not as unimportant as it may seem although i don't know anything much we can do about it (we can't really make him shut up) except counterargumenting him publically and educating as much people as possible about the real truths about free software movement (and open source movement as well).

Thank you
Daniel

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Daniel Memenode signature

monserrat's picture
User offline. Last seen 9 years 50 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2004-11-11
Re: Gates says: communists!

Yeah... You're right, Danijel. Though I would like to disregard the bad guy, we can't... :hum: In every opportunity we have didactly to counterargument his stupidities.

Rijik.

User offline. Last seen 11 years 21 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2004-08-23
Re: Gates says: communists!

Gah! How could I forget linking this to one of my favourite ideas, something I want to write a science fiction story about.

In the future, everything will be owned by "The Company", which was founded by the "The Great Visionary".

The idea is that ultimate capitalism will lead to the same political system as communism, because the most rich company will buy all others, and within a company there is no capitalistic competition, only communist-like cooperation.

So,"The Company" == "The Party", and "The Great Visionary" == "The Great Helmsman".

Idea Laughing Wink

User offline. Last seen 11 years 44 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2004-11-16
Re: Gates says: communists!

If he says that i'm a commie - then i better start reading "Das Capital" - only 12 volumes - but good thing is - there m ust be a LOT of second hand copies - for a VERY low price

Peace

Laughing :-D Laughing

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