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Let's bring down the system being constructed with our own flesh, blood and being

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User offline. Last seen 10 years 4 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2007-09-14
Ludicrous laws
tbuitenh wrote:

If you want to get angry about something for which there is real evidence, just read all the freedom depriving laws that have been passed everywhere, and look up in the news archives which reasons politicians cited for introducing them. Those are hard facts for which there simply is no excuse.

One big example is happening in Germany. They are actually passing (or have passed, since I'm gone I don't have all details about everything anymore) a law that makes security-tools (or as they probably call them "hacker-tools"), like nMap, Nessus and the likes, illegal. This means that, as a server- or network-admin, cannot legally check your systems for security-problems. And that people who already use these tools in an illegal way, because breaking into other people's systems was already illegal before, will pretty much only show one reaction: the finger!
They, and crackers outside Germany, will be happily laughing at the state of security German networks might fall into, simply because it has been declared illegal to check your security. It's totally ridiculous. I'm actually happy that I'm not there anymore, with all the laws that are being passed.

Recently I heard they're even thinking about putting up speed-limits on all the highways. Germany is the only country I know of where you find highways where partially you have no speed-limit at all. My home-town is like 25km away from the dutch border, and most of that way you are free to drive as fast as you like. It's great fun!

But back to more ridiculous laws that are being or have been passed. So, they are making "hacker-tools" illegal, which really reminds me of the "new weapons law" that has been passed a couple of years ago because some kid went loonies in his school and killed a bunch of people.
First thing that comes up when something like this happens in Germany is: "Killer-games". Everybody screams that these games turn kids into killers, bla bla bla. My opinion is that they should tackle the real problem, that parents simply don't care anymore for their kids. TV and PC are the new parents of today. If a kid has some social problem he doesn't talk to his parents, he asks his "friends" on ICQ, Yahoo, .
That is a problem, not computer-games.
And so, since so many people object, and since there are no studies that absolutely prove that playing Counter Strike doesn't make you jump over your neighbors fence and crawl over his lawn with a fully loaded G36, they do what: Yes, something ridiculous! And why? To show that something is done; just that this something totally misses the point, and, in the same way as making "hacker-tools" illegal, only affects those who wouldn't do anything wrong anyway!
So they passed this "new weapons law", which for example makes my personal favorite, the butterfly-knife, illegal. Also included are ninja-stars (Who the hell could ever seriously hurt somebody with that? I had some when I was younger and it was hard enough to properly through them into a big fat tree!).
Again there's the point as stated above, those who want to use those "tools" to hurt/kill people with them won't give a shit about the law. Most others will willingly follow the announcement that they have a couple of weeks to give their stuff to the police without getting in trouble.

Now let us think about this law a bit, and let's take my personal favorite as an example.
They make butterfly-knives illegal. Probably all of you have seen or even played with one before, I guess. And if you don't practice with it a lot, and I mean really a lot, you won't have it open before your opponents fist smashed your nose and/or jaw.
Another point is that, if I'm so full of hatred that I really want to kill somebody, why not just go to a random shop a buy one of those nice long and sharp bread-knives? Those are longer than a butterfly, and usually sharper!
And I could also just go into a forest, take a nice heavy branch from a tree and smash it into somebody's skull. And by the way, cars can kill too; and they're still legal as far as I know. ;-)

As you probably agree, these laws are so ridiculous that it really smells. The government passes them in order to show they are doing something. And those parents who let their kids be educated by the TV, instead of them, are happy because the government does something, and they think it's for the good of their kids, and that now they have another worry less, and still don't need to care what their kids do...

Okay, no let's leave the past behind us and get back to the future.
The next big (big big big) thing that's coming up in Germany is aiming to break all records on ridiculousity that have ever been set: Yes, I'm talking "Bundestrojaner" here. The "Bundestrojaner" (literally translated it means "Federal trojan") is supposed to be a measure against..., yes terrorism! Isn't it great how this always serves as a good excuse? I think next time I forget to mob the floor and my wife gets angry I also just blame terrorism...

So, what is this thing, the "Bundestrojaner"?
From what information trickles over to me it seems to be a program that is supposed to be installed on every PC in Germany, in order to give the government the possibility to easily search through your stuff to check if you maybe plan any terror-attacks or if you have a copy of "A-bombs for Dummies" on your hard-drive.
The funny thing is that this totally by-passed German law, if not the constition. It totally wrecks your privacy, and, as far as I heard, they won't even need a judge's decree in order to do that, which they need when they show up at your door and want to search your home.
So, the government then could just do whatever they like, with whoever they like.

Another thing is, since "hacker-tools" are illegal, you cannot check if this trojan doesn't open up other doors. Or maybe it's even coded so crappy that not only the government, but also crackers, can use it to easily spy through your system.

Really folks, you always make me right so much...
But anyway, about the ludicrous laws I mentioned here I can go on and on forever, if not longer.

I know it's a bit offtopic, but still I think it follows the spirit. That is actually something that really pisses me off, the passing off laws that have no positive effect whatsoever and only harm the innocent.

I'm just wondering, if I go to Germany and bring my notebook, do I have to remove nMap before I get there? ;-)

User offline. Last seen 11 years 31 weeks ago. Offline
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libervisco wrote:

But most of them would apparently concede that it is a good "jolt" of encouragement to think for ourselves and be more suspicious of what we're being told and how we're being led.

In fact, it appears that even the actual authors of Zeitgeist don't necessary put the content of the videos as absolute truth that needs no questioning. The end of a statement page says:


It is my hope that people will not take what is said in the film as the truth, but find out for themselves, for truth is not told, it is realized.

Seems fair enough to me, albeit the movie is quite suggestive in itself. It is a little bit paradoxical in that it is definitely propaganda, but with a message that essentially encourages not readily believing propaganda. It is almost like a test. They give you an incredibly compelling piece of propaganda that at the same time tells you not to believe it out right leaving it up to you to resist its own appeal and check for the truths yourself, to use your brain instead of just keeping ignorant and entertained.

Actually, saying "this is true, you can check the facts yourself" is a well known psychological trick to make people believe something without verifying it. It's bluffing. Whether or not the "see for yourself" from this movie is like that, I'll leave that for everyone to decide for themselves Eye .

memenode's picture
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Well someone who would

Well someone who would question everything does not need a note saying "question this too", right? Smiling

And so I am back on the fence on some of the hottest issues in the movie, like the astrology-bible parallels and 9/11. Who knows if I've ever be off the fence, it's starting to hurt my ass...

I remain even more suspicious though, of religion, government, bankers and media and so far the most controversial of all in my mind is the bible.. This is one thing where there is always the most bunking and debunking going on all the time because this is where the world is kind of split in half and it's not just us the people vs them the government/corporations/media etc.. It's really a way in which "the people" are consistently divided.

Just think of how much less controversial Zeitgeist would be if there was no Part 1 in it. Sure a lot of people would still disagree with the 9/11 part and probably a bit less of them with the third part and conclusion. It is the Part 1 which makes this movie so hot for most people, unfortunately..


Daniel Memenode signature

User offline. Last seen 11 years 31 weeks ago. Offline
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About part three: I wonder

About part three: I wonder if the Federal Reserve actually is a for-profit bank? And what is worse: a currency that is tied to the randomness (probably not very random though) of the gold market, or one that is tied to the "whims" of some very smart bankers?

I have no idea.

User offline. Last seen 7 years 27 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2007-02-26
I'm in the same boat as

I'm in the same boat as reptiler when it comes to my world view, there's nothing new in Zeitgeist.

As for the strategy of putting in sections knocking religion (picking on the slow kid - too easy) and raising the 9/11 issue (help us vent our anger), time will tell if it works. Look at how much of this thread was taken up by 9/11 and religion.

Religion needn't be divisive, that's been proven, but it can be used to manipulate the masses by a few 'leaders' for their own gain. Attacking religion is impractical, the devout will not be suppressed, besides, skin colour or something else would be used instead to divide and conquor. The solution is to check-mate the manipulators by replacing their system of mass control. Hello Internet freedom.

Noam Chomsky called for people to drop 9/11, not because it doesn't matter, but because even if a new truth commission published shocking revelations, what will change? If it turned out the majority of New Yorkers are right and some people had fore-knowledge but instead of preventing it turned it to their advantage, yes, we'd get some heads on plates, but what would fundamentally change in the world order given that the next election is just a choice between oligarchs and most people remain corporate workhorses?

9/11 should be put to one side by most people, support those seeking truth and keep an open mind, but don't let one battle distract from war strategy. That distraction is exactly what the elite want, at the same time I can see the sense where the producers of Zeitgeist gamble that the popularity of controversy will give them the chance to get other big and boring but most important points across.

I've also taken the same approach as reptiler in finding frivolous diversions useful as a coping strategy. We've got major issues. Tackling climate change demands that global consumption and pollution are reduced, but our population is exploding and economic development is taking off in the most populous nations. Consumption and pollution are set for an exponential rise.

How do we face these terrible realities? The line from Shawshank Redemption fits - "Get busy living, or get busy dying". I want to live, and to be happy. These issues are like a colossal weight, billions must put their shoulder to the weight to move it, but any individual who tries to take that weight on their own shoulders will be crushed by it. Make space to be human and you're all the better prepared to do your bit in the good work.

While this bad state of affairs is driven hard by the elite, before we go Baader-Meinhof remember the masses are all too quick to compete with their neighbours at consumerism, and believe unquestioningly that we must have economic growth and it must be through competition - all out economic war.

Furthermore when it comes to things like replacing the standard wealth concentrating corporation with the gainsharing democratic enterprise, or replacing the corrupt oligarchy propagating representative democracy with something closer to Swiss style direct democracy, the masses don't get it, or don't want to get it, or don't even want to think about it because it's not entertaining.

Zeitgeist is a good contribution to awareness, at least getting issues on the agenda, and once again thanks to the Internet.

Finally I agree libervisco, when facing wolves don't act like a sheep, be like a lion.

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