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Marching up for freedom!

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memenode's picture
User offline. Last seen 34 weeks 11 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 2004-07-12

Do you consider yourself a radical person, a person who is not afraid to speak up no matter what anybody thinks, a person who would go out for the streets and march up for your your beliefs, your freedom and your rights?

How far exactly would you go? What are your very limits in radicalism against and for certain ideas?

Do you ever think about things in this manner: "they are taking away MY freedom and MY rights, they will be fought off, we will unite, no more, no more, no more.. i'll do everything and everything in power to fight them off and regain my freedom!"

What, where and how much is it neccesery to get your activist spirit going high?

Radicals, this is your call!
Daniel

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User offline. Last seen 13 years 40 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2004-11-10
Re: Marching up for freedom!

Hi Daniel,

Well, I think that defending my ideas about freedom and open source and free sotware (as in freedom) is a right I have. It is my idea and I have some arguments (How I wish I had many more) to discuss. At the beginning (when Linux started to grow - for me since Red Hat 7 and Cool I thought that Linux users or even the system would be anarchist. But understand this as a way to modify what it has already been established through proprietary software. Now there are open software that anyone can see and modify the code (since if he/she redistributes it again under the same license - GPL). Today something is changing... It seems that proprietary companies are trying to generate a great anarchy with themselves, with FUD and the like. I am not sure if I am getting to explain correctly my point. It is difficult for me to write in another language. Anyway, I do not consider myself a radical person... however, some people who had not had the same insight I had (to start using open source and free software) I mean, that are still using Windows, they call me very radical. The point is that their arguments are sometimes sophisms and not arguments. If I were more informed about many things happening in the open source world (specially Linux) and I am making an effort to achive that, I would be more prepared to discuss this in a better way. Anyway, I am a little shy when it comes to say what I think. I do it normally when the moment is appropriated and if I will not be punished :-D I try to talk to some people I see that can hear me. Always when I can. But sometimes I get a little frustrated when I find so much resistance. And it is not a racional one. Some are lazy, others have prejudice (what a bad english...) and in the end... I sometimes cannot understand how educated and prepared (don't know how to express myself here) people can be so blind and so narrow minded.

Thank you,
Andre

memenode's picture
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Re: Marching up for freedom!
Quote:

It seems that proprietary companies are trying to generate a great anarchy with themselves, with FUD and the like.

If by anarchy you mean "chaos" than it's enough to mention software patents being propagated by some proprietary software companies as the proof enough on where exactly are they heading, into chaos and eventual destruction of their very industry. The "threat" of free software makes some of them be even worse going for disastrous measures just to fight free software while some "see the light" and are turning to the embracement of free software as a business model (usually being called "open source")

Quote:

I try to talk to some people I see that can hear me. Always when I can. But sometimes I get a little frustrated when I find so much resistance. And it is not a racional one. Some are lazy, others have prejudice (what a bad english...) and in the end... I sometimes cannot understand how educated and prepared (don't know how to express myself here) people can be so blind and so narrow minded.

I know what you mean. I don't really think that those people are irrational by nature. They are rather pushing away their rationalism by trying to justify their current stands just so that they can preserve their position. Such people tend to bend ethics to meet their interests even though their subconciense is telling them it's wrong. This is the human corruption at work caused by the blind rush for more money.

Everyone that listens and thinks clearly and is not THAT corrupted with money will simply know and understand that free software and free information (as in freedom) is the right thing and right way and that it's not that everything is really just about the money. It has it's place, but it shouldn't be on the very top. Your freedom and ethics should.

Thanks
Daniel

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User offline. Last seen 13 years 40 weeks ago. Offline
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Re: Marching up for freedom!
Quote:

If by anarchy you mean "chaos" than it's enough to mention software patents being propagated by some proprietary software companies as the proof enough on where exactly are they heading, into chaos and eventual destruction of their very industry. The "threat" of free software makes some of them be even worse going for disastrous measures just to fight free software while some "see the light" and are turning to the embracement of free software as a business model (usually being called "open source")

That is correct. Chaos. Their actions (specially from the giant) are more and more desperate and more violent (the more violent, the more desperate). Many people even try to tell them how to do business (comments I read many times in Linuxtoday, for example), how to compete and why Linux is attracting people so much. But they don't seem to hear or to understand...

Quote:

I know what you mean. I don't really think that those people are irrational by nature. They are rather pushing away their rationalism by trying to justify their current stands just so that they can preserve their position. Such people tend to bend ethics to meet their interests even though their subconciense is telling them it's wrong. This is the human corruption at work caused by the blind rush for more money.

Hmmm... I have to be very carefull since I can easily be misinterpreted (by anyone who reads this). I didn't mean "irrationality" as synonym of madness (I hope you understood me well) but when I wrote about "not rational", I meant emotional. Something people do sometimes by passion. It is hard for me to explain myself Smiling English is not my native language (Portuguese from Brazil) and mine is not so good. Smiling Anyway, I think I know what you mean. Sometimes I believe that these people (acting more on emotions) just ignore certain things. What is very common is piracy. There are many excuses for its practice. Some are: Price. People say that since they don't receive huge sallaries that would allow them to pay for licenses (Windows XP or 2000, Adobe Photoshop, MS Office, Corel, Macromedia Flash, Dreamweaver Homesite) they have (or at least they think they have) one solution only. Making piracy. Every ad calling for a job asks for web desingers to be experts in all the programs I mentioned above, to pay them, for example, U$300 a month (not very much here) probably expect them to be rich! It is not a good deal to spend thousands of dollars (well, any currency, I am just giving an example) in licenses only to receive a couple of hundreds in salary. Another point people complain is that piracy only exists because prices are too high! Solution? Piracy. That's what people here think. And they say they can do nothing because that is what companies look for. People with knowledge on proprietary software. And how often do you find people who spend hours in front of a computer at home? People also learn (and many times work) at home. At my work the programs are bought. They have the licenses, so we don't have much choice. Anyway, I can download and install a GPL program in Windows. It is alowed, no problem. I started using Dreamweaver (licensed, of course) and now I am using the GPL Vi Improved (version for Windows). Very interesting, by the way.

Well, I guess that I left the main subject. Anyway, some day these blind people will have to open their eyes.

A problem in Third World Countries is that many people here think that the lack of ethics is something common. Routine, already. And, if the laws don't work.... Well, I guess that there are many countries with this kind of problem...

Thank you,
Andre

User offline. Last seen 13 years 40 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2004-11-10
Re: Marching up for freedom!

I just read (again) the last post from last night (GMT -3 here) and saw that I repeated my points on "price". Sorry. I even read it before posting, but I guess I was a little distracted (read sleepy). Sorry. Smiling

Thank you,
Andre

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Re: Marching up for freedom!
Quote:

Hmmm... I have to be very carefull since I can easily be misinterpreted (by anyone who reads this). I didn't mean "irrationality" as synonym of madness (I hope you understood me well) but when I wrote about "not rational", I meant emotional. Something people do sometimes by passion. It is hard for me to explain myself Smiling English is not my native language (Portuguese from Brazil) and mine is not so good. Smiling Anyway, I think I know what you mean. Sometimes I believe that these people (acting more on emotions) just ignore certain things.

I didn't think about madness as irrationalism don't essentially has to represent that. The "irrational" decisions and acts those people are undertaking are caused by uncontrolled self-interest, emotion, as you put it. When the one put's it's reasoning above all else it is hard for an emotion to take control. Emotions should serve and support reasoning, not act against it. They should therefore be controled to play that role. This is what many ambitious and enthusiastic people are doing, they are full of emotions for what they are doing, but still, what they are doing is probed and controled by reason and the sense that they are doing the right thing right way spurs even more positive emotion that supports such actions. People who put profit on the first place in their life are very easy to fall victim to the selfishness which is closer to emotion than reason.

Quote:

What is very common is piracy. There are many excuses for its practice. Some are: Price. ...

When it comes to "piracy" i try to be more like Richard Stallman on that matter. I agree with him when he says that the very term "piracy" is invalid as it paints everyone who makes unauthorized copies to be equal to the murderers and stealers that pirates were. It is a term coined by a proprietary software and music industry in an attempt to paint such act as utterly evil.
It is thus better to refer to refer to it not as "piracy" but just "unauthorized copying".

The only thing that can make unauthorized copying wrong is the fact that it is against the law even thought the law might be wrong as such. Free software was, among other things, always about helping the fellow computer users and friends not denying them to have what you have. Proprietary software asks you that you "betray" your friend by denying him/her the software that you bought, denying to help them. The licence (such as EULA) is asking you to abide to such terms. Software "wants" to be free (as RMS put it), and all information as well. It is natural to share it. The fact of how unauthorized copying is popular only confirms that fact. People NEED the freedom to share. What unauthorized copying is, is nothing else but using the ethical right to share according to that need and in order to help fellow computer users at the cost of breaking the current law. It is up to everyone what will they choose. Will they break the law, will they break ethics and deny their friends help or will they simply swithc to using only free as in freedom software. The third option is always the best and mostly encouraged of course.

But the point is that people who make unauthorized copies ARE not murderous criminals and evil people as the term "piracy" tends to paint them.

Thanks
Daniel

PS: Your english is really not that bad Andre, mine is not much better and i still dare to write those articles. ;-) I can understand you witl not much problems.

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User offline. Last seen 14 years 34 weeks ago. Offline
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Re: Marching up for freedom!

I'm a radical fundy christian and most of you know what that means...not really although I am Christian I only stray into the Radical Fundamentalist camp on a few issues. When it comes to my freedoms I do what I can, call my senator and congressman, vote with my pocketbook, engage others in discussion, and take a stand however I can. I don't go much for the picketing outside but as a geek I do have some aversion to the luminous yellow orb that hangs in the sky.

I will do whatever I can to protect my freedoms and the freedoms of those too lazy or ignorant to defend them themselves but if your asking if I'd blow stuff up? Well no cause that's just freakin' crazy there now!

memenode's picture
User offline. Last seen 34 weeks 11 hours ago. Offline
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Re: Marching up for freedom!

I agree James.. There's a limit for everything. Being radical may still encompass activities like getting out to the streets in a *peacefull* demonstration, but not violence and destruction of any kind as that is simply pointless or even if it has a point, it's not a good way to make it.

Thanks
Daniel

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User offline. Last seen 14 years 33 weeks ago. Offline
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Re: Marching up for freedom!
Quote:

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God."--Thomas Jefferson

Quote:

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure--also Thomas Jefferson

There are many legitimate defenses for radicalism. We owe no obligation to those who would enslave us or deny us the fundamental rights to which all men (and women) are entitled.

I don't support radicalism for its own sake. Too often, radicals line up against a problem without proposing a solution.

I support the ideas and principles of free software but there are some underlying economic issues I think need to be solved. How do you recognize and reward those who put considerable amounts of time, energy, and talent into software development. The flip side is the free riders. Is it sharing, if a large group of people can take all they want from the community and give back nothing in return.

I don't see either of those problems as show stoppers as far as open source and free software are concerned. I do see it as an issue worthy of discussion

monserrat's picture
User offline. Last seen 9 years 40 weeks ago. Offline
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Re: Marching up for freedom!
Quote:

James wrote:

I do have some aversion to the luminous yellow orb that hangs in the sky.

James, what do you mean by this? :-o

As far radicalism, I consider myself as a radical humanist. And I don't fear telling all I think in any place, in any moment. And I want and I do believe we will construct a new world from the cooperative comunities. (okay, not very modest! Laughing )

Quote:

Redcone wrote:

I support the ideas and principles of free software but there are some underlying economic issues I think need to be solved.

How do you recognize and reward those who put considerable amounts of time, energy, and talent into software development.

The flip side is the free riders. Is it sharing, if a large group of people can take all they want from the community and give back nothing in return.

Perfect, Redcone!

You touched directly in the heart of the cooperativism paradox. That's why I'm insisting to discuss this extremely important issue in the topic 'Competion X Cooperation'.

To any cooperative organisations (not only FOSS) happen the same: "how do you recognize and reward those who put considerable amounts of time, energy, and talent into software development', or into production and service development of any area of society? Be them shoe factories, farms, education institutions, churchs, supermarkets, clubs, political parties, hospitals and so no.

I'm still puzzled with this issue, trying to imagine a way to glimpse some possible solution. Confused

Rijik.

User offline. Last seen 14 years 34 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2004-12-07
Re: Marching up for freedom!

I was referring to the sun. I'm not big fan of the outdoors, and most of my geek friends share my sentiments. I much prefer the warm glow of my CRT or LCD to the canerous "natural" illumination one gets outdoors.

This shirt may express it better than anything else:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/generic/7029/

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